[Leaplist] Okay, this "experiment" is a joke of Apples-to-Oranges -- WAS: omega 11 help.

[Ray Brunkow]

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> From: Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith at ieee.org>
>
>   
>> In fact, I do _not_ think Windows comes with Flash either, unless
>> Microsoft finally licensed it for Windows 7.  Please confirm.  If
>> this is still not the case (and I don't know why it would be), why
>> are you _continuing_ to compare apples-to-oranges in "installing"
>> Linux to Windows?
>>     
>
> Okay Ray, I think I'm going to have to ask you (nicely) to end your
> unintentional FUD.  I just confirmed that Windows 7 does not play
> SWF (among countless other things) out-of-the-box.
>   
Slow down there Bryan, I have all the respect in the world for you, but 
at no time have I stated that MS pre-installs flash.
> Microsoft has not licensed Adobe Flash either, so it has to be
> downloaded and installed as well, for the same "contract" reasons
> as Fedora/Omega.  Although in the case of Fedora/Omega, there
> is the YUM repo option (with the reader), integrated with the packaging
> system.  Microsoft does not offer the same for Adobe products.
>
> There are so many things here in addition that are not Apples-to-
> Oranges either.  MS Office is yet another, not included with Windows
> and a completely different purchase.  So it should be completely off-
> the-table entirely, unless you want to factor in additional costs.
>   
Again, read the stated path and choices I made for the test paramiters.  
I chose MS Office for the MS OS as that is what most end users will do.  
OOo by default in most Linux distributions is already pre-installed and 
that is a huge advantage over MS IMHO and I have stated such.  The test 
again started out more of a see how long it will take, knowing that 
winXP to get fully patched and running to a point that the average end 
user would want can take more then 12 hours with patching, repatching, 
patching again, and again, and the endless updates to both the OS and MS 
Office seem to never stop...  Several years ago Debian would take me 
roughly 30-45min to be FULLY functional as a desktop OS that I could 
turn loose on any average user who knows how to point and click with a 
mouse as well as right and left click. 

I wanted to see how much progress if any MS had made with Windows 7.  MS 
has made some very good strides, but still has IMHO made some very bad 
choices for the power user or the average user who might be using a 
static IP scheme in their home/LAN like I do.  To be blunt right now if 
someone came to me asking if they should install Windows 7 or Linux and 
I do not trust their skills with computers and know they just dont want 
to install Vista and are afraid that XP is going to be dropped for 
support, Id be hard pressed to push Linux on them if they were not going 
to buy it from an OEM, or pay someone else to install and configure it 
for them.
> And you're already stretching it by evaluating Linux on things that can
> _only_ be obtained via paying for a commercial license, because you
> want commercial software.  In the case of vendors, they do that for you.
> Heck, even Red Hat pays for Adobe products to be licensed and they
> go in the "Extras", now (as of EL5), "Supplementary" CD/DVD, such as
> Flash and Reader (but only as part of the paid EL subscription).  Again,
> these things are not free for redistribution.
>   
im a bit confused about this statement Bryan, I was under the impression 
that Adobe opened up Flash player and Adobe reader to FOSS?  Also I am 
NOT asking Linux as part of the listed test to deal with flash.  Again, 
thus the new thread.
> Lastly ...
>
> Derek wrote: 
>   
>>  Getting (and maintaining) exactly the end result Ray wants requires a significant 
>> amount of time and effort, period.
>>     
>
> Don't even go there.  This is 0% about effort.  Everything exists.
>
> It's about 100% indemnification (open source software that may be patent
> encumbered) and 100% legal reality (commercial software, even "free"
> as in no cost to home or even other consumers, must be licensed for
> redistribution).
>
> Even Microsoft can't do such, and does not include things like Adobe Flash.
>
> If we start talking about comparing Windows "on a PC from the factory," then
> we have to compare Linux "on a PC from the factory" as well.  Which is why
> I advocate Linux pre-installed for the exact same reasons why Windows is
> pre-installed.
>
> So users don't have to download things the distribution cannot include (is
> freely redistributable) or decides not to include (either for cost or competitor
> reasons).

-- 
Raymond L. Brunkow
5th Degree Black Belt
Certified Instructor
Choong Sil Kwan TaekwonDo Federation


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