[Leaplist] Backup to external USB md RAID 1/5?

Fri Apr 4 10:32:39 EDT 2008

On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 05:42:03PM -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 18:35 -0500, Mark W. Alexander wrote:
> > If you can point me to any itx < $100, I'd consider it.
> 
> First off, I've been saying _MicroATX_ for a long time.
> Just in case you didn't see that:  
>   "I choose MicroATX because it's the most commodity priced solution."
> 
> Secondly, I only recently started saying _Mini-ITX_ has become almost as
> viable of an option, with more recent drops.  E.g., (from the archives)
>   http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/leaplist/2008-March/003816.html  
> 
> The Intel D201GLY2 runs about $60 and is passive (the older GLY and
> faster GLY2A use active fans).  Intel calls it "smaller MicroATX
> compatible" because "Mini-ITX" is actually a ViA trademark last time I
> checked.  But it's the exact same 6.7"x6.7" layout.
> 
> The GLY2 products use the Celeron 220, which is the newer, low-voltage
> Conroe-L core:  
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron#Conroe-L  

ITX, ATX, Micro, Mini, Nano... Guess what? I don't care. You're picking the
wrong nits.

> > For the price of that mainboard, you can get everything in a case
> > slightly smaller that a video tape.
> 
> And you get a 3-year, lower-end, 266MHz I/O Processor (which is _not_ as
> capable as an old, 7-issue, 266MHz Celeron at general OS) that is good
> at doing 1 thing only.  Again, it is not a general microprocessor, it's
> an I/O Processor.

Give me a link I can click and have one delivered and set up in an hour.
Otherwise you're just wasting my time telling me how to spend design, shop,
and assemble time I don't have.

> The Intel IOP (storage) and IXP series X-Scale microcontrollers are
> great for off-loading streaming duplexed or XOR parity operations much
> better than a general CPU or providing a RX (receive) TCP Off-load
> Engine (TOE) at, say, 533MHz or higher today.  These things have a IXP
> 266MHz and little memory to even drive Postscript in a printer, much
> less act as an appliance.  ;)

Oh. Right then. I'll just ignore the fact that it's been a perfect solution for
me for over 2 years. Obviously you understand my use case far better than me.
You win. 

> For $60 you can get a Mini-ITX solution.  Add $10 for 1GiB DDR2 SRAM
> which is dirt cheap these days.  How you mount it is up to you.  If you
> want a "formal" ATX-type case, you can buy one for $50-150, with all
> sorts of goodies, including slim-line CDs, hard drive bays, slots for
> CompactFlash cards, etc...  Or you can call up DigiKey (or go to
> RadioShack if you must) and get a "project box" that isn't much better
> than that video tape you speak of.  A 60W power supply shouldn't cost
> you more than $20-30 either.

So it's a $60 solution. With +$ for this, +$ for that, that I have to find
somewhere else, put together and hope it all works. Oh? I want a _case_? just
double or triple the price! That's PERFECT except for the fact that it's 180
degrees _away_ from what I want.

And I get to power a 60W device instead of a 3-5W device with a 15W external
drive. My bedroom lights already dim when my laser printer prints.  Maybe I
shouldn't add more power draw on that circuit? Or maybe your next suggestion
will be that I should move into a data center instead of living in a house. I'm
sure that's a more appropriate "technical solution" and that's really what
you're talking about here is "the right technical solution (TM, pat. pend. --
TheBS)", right?

> Hell, if Mini-ITX (6.7"x6.7") is "too big for you," then go Nano-ITX
> (4"x4") with a ViA processor that is still faster than that IXP at
> general computing.
> 
> > Favorable price-point being... what, 3, 4, 5x  the price, plus build time
> > and effort?
> 
> Again, $60.  Not just for some crap-level ViA, but for an Intel 1.2GHz
> Conroe-L processor in the GLY2 platform.

Still looking for that click-buy-install link....

> > I'm not saying "Hey, get this thing to do everything you could
> > possibly want." I'm saying for what you can do with them, they are _very_
> > economical, quiet, no moving parts and they just work.
> 
> ATA-to-CompactFlash adapter:  $3.95
>           CompactFlash card:  $5
> 
> Now I have a crapload _more_ storage to play with.  The only time I've
> had issues with this configuration is with Windows, because NT expects a
> "special format" that costs an arm'n a leg.  DOS and Linux kernels don't
> have issues.
> 
> Oh yeah, add $1 more for the 40-pin ATA cable if you don't have one.  ;)
> 
> > Need double the processing power? Buy another one.
> 
> Huh?  If the system is already strained because it does _not_ even have
> enough I/O-processing power to do both network _and_ storage, it doesn't
> matter.  ;)

Dear Bryan: It's not. I don't really care what you imagine it's doing. I don't
even care what you imagine I want. If it doesn't suit what you think you need
it to, fine, but quit telling me what issues I'm having because I'm not seeing
any of the things you allege.

> > Then get backup redunancy by running unison
> > between them. Sure it will run all night. And maybe the next day, too. So...
> > what?  External USB disk are pretty cheap these days, too.
> 
> With disconnections and performance issues as well.  I can deal with
> performance.  I can't deal with disconnections.

I've never had a performance issue. I've never seen a disconnect. Even with
multiple disks stacked on a hub while doing data consolidation.

Never.

> It's why I still use an ATA-to-CF adapter instead of an USB dongle.
> Repeat after me ... "USB is not a block interface, it just plays
> one."  ;)

Repeat after me... I don't care.

> > Honestly, I don't care if one fails after a few years, as long as it doesn't
> > take my data with it.
> 
> Which make the ATA-to-CF adapters nice.  I typically put two in a
> system, one for backup/failover.  A lot cheaper than disk.  If my
> enclosure has a slit, I can replace it without opening the box.

Good for you.

> > The question (paraphrased) was "Everything I have works. How to I compress
> > space?" It's far more practical to replace perfectly functional machines that
> > take up too much space for $100 than for $300 or more.  For $300 bucks, I'd just
> > keep my tower running and, well, keep the $300 bucks.
> 
> I can assemble passively cooled Mini-ITX system for not much more, and
> have 3-5x the I/O and 20x the processing power, 10-20x the memory, let
> alone the flexibility of a PCI slot (if I want multiple NIC ports).
> Skip the hard drive and just use the sub-$10 CF adapter solution for
> solid-state.  Enough to run a security appliance, including Squid
> caching in memory-only.  ;)

I can't. More accurately and importantly, I won't. I have neither the time nor
the inclination. You can blather on forever about what you "can" do but nothing
you've said has given me an easier or more economical alternative. Not only are
you not being helpful, you are being distractive by spewing technically
accurate but otherwise completely meaningless information.

If you want to be helpful, provide a link where I can buy an equivalently
simple, economical, and effortless solution off the shelf. The only extra
effort I accept these days to use Linux is to install it.  And it had better
work the first time because I'm not trying again.  I'll even pay extra for
pre-installation so I don't have to do the install.  Anything that requires
more effort than that is not a "solution". It may be a "project" or maybe even
a "hobby," (hell, it might even be fun) but it's not a solution. Not to the
issues that are important _to_me_.

mwa
-- 
Mark W. Alexander
slash at dotnetslash.net

The contents of this message authored by Mark W. Alexander are released under
the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial license.  Copyright of quoted
materials, if any, are retained by the original author(s).

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/