[Leaplist] Patent reform vs terminating Intellectual Property laws [was Re: FYI, evidence of realities of IP]

[Bill Anderson]

On Tuesday 23 January 2007 16:31, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 17:37, Kyle Gonzales wrote:
> > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 13:01 -0700, Bill Anderson wrote:
> > > Even then he didn't take something from you. He may have cheated you
> > > out of something, but it was still not theft. That's why it's called
> > > *cheating* to copy another's  answers (assuming they are getting the
> > > right answers!), not *stealing*.
> >
> > Cheating someone out of something is theft.  Trying to redefine it does
> > not help.  Work was done for a purpose, and you stole that work for your
> > own purpose.
> >
> > I do not understand this assault on the rights of those to protect their
> > intellectual property.  If Evil Proprietary Company X appropriated Linux
> > code into evil proprietary application without abiding by the GPL, you
> > would be screaming at the top of your lungs for the IP laws which give
> > legal recourse.
> >
> > Or is it ok for, say, Microsoft to take all Linux code and appropriate
> > it into closed-source software?  Because that is what you are saying...
> > Bill looking over Linus' shoulder, and taking the goodies.  Bill just
> > cheated, that's all.  Silly Bill.
>
> I think what they're trying to say, and I don't necessarily agree, is that
> there should be absolutely no patents, copyrights (and trademarks???). 
No, I am saying that to violate copyright or even infringe on a patent is not 
stealing or theft, it is copyright and patent infringement (same with 
trademarks).

> What they're also saying is I'd have to go right out and find a new career,
> because my days of writing books and courseware to feed my family would be
> over. Of course, if medicines were no longer patented or patentable, drug
> prices would tumble a couple orders of magnitude, so perhaps that would be
> worth it.

You are aware that we had a staggering amount of literature and science well 
prior to the patent and copyright systems, right? Did you know that William 
Shakespeare lived in the lap of luxury partially by rewriting well known 
stories in his own manner before copyrights? Did you know that the works of 
Plato, Socrates, Pythagoras, Newton, Nitzche, Archimedes, Da Vinci, 
Michaelangelo, and literally thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands of 
artists scientists, etc. profited well from their efforts without this 
system. Your assertion is disproven by these facts.


> So if I understand them correctly, they're not complaining that patents and
> copyrights last too long (I wholeheartedly agree),
While I've not made that assertion yet, it is a central core of my issues with 
our current system.

> or that the patent 
> office is not doing due diligence looking up prior art (I wholeheartedly
> agree), 
I argue they can not. it is a core scalability problem with the system as 
implemented. Longer terms of monopoly only exacerbatethe problem

> or that the patent office grants patents for things like one click 
> ordering and HTML hyperlinks (I wholeheartedly agree), 
Again, while you are correct in that I've not commented on this directly, it 
is a direct and inevitable effect of the system we have.

> but they believe the 
> government should not grant a monopoly, based on invention or authorship,
> even for a minute.

Can you point out where I've claimed that? No, you can not. In fact until 
tonight I've made statements either way. I've merely attempted to clarify 
some incorrect statements about history and known effects of the system. 
Anything additional is entirely within the mind of the reader. That said it 
is a common tendency for those who have been shown incorrect automatically 
assume that the one correcting them holds a counter position.


> I doubt copyrights, trademarks and patents will ever be eliminated --
> patents have been with us over 200 years. 
And we've had literature, science, and invention for how long? A helluva lot 
longer than 200 years according to my world's history. ;)